Amendments to the Constitution, [8 June] 1789 — reading text

miniiter cf foreign affairs, and hov.- many more mini- flers I cannot fay, will be made necelTai y to the prefident if by this eltabhihment we make them m.ore refpeclable than the other branches of the government, the prefident will be induced to place more confidence in them than in the fenatc, the people wiU alfb be led to confider them as more conftqucntiai perfons. But ail high officers of this kind mni'c have confidence placed in them, they will in fa6l be the chancellors, the miniflers of the r.ation, it wiH lead to the eftabiiihment of a lyftem of favoritifm, and'the prin- cipal magiltrate will be governed by thefe men. An oli-  — 57? DEBATES A. 1789; garchy w'lVi be confirmed upon the ruin of the democracy ; a government the moft hateful will defcend to our polte- rity, and all our exertions in the glorious caufe of freedom will be rendered frullrate, we fhall go on till we reduce the powers of the preddent and fenate to nothing but a name. This furely, lir, does not comport with the con- duct of the houfe ; we have been very tenacious of givino- a title to the prelident, left it ihould be implied wedefired to encrcafe his power, we would call him by no other ap- pellation than merely preiident ol the United S-tates. I confefs I was not llich a Itickler about titles as all this, becaule I did not conlider the liberties of the people could be hurt by fuch means ; but I am not clear that the confti- tution authorizes us to beftow titles, it is not auiong the enumerated poweis of congrefs ; but if the conftkution did authorize it— [A call to order was made by iome of the jnemlicrs, and Mr. Gerry was deiired to confine himfelf to the point, the fubjed of titles was not before the houfe.] Mr. Gerry proceeded, and faid, the fenate were conftitu- tionally the higheft officers of government, except the pre- iident and vice-prefident ; that the houfe was about to iupercec>e them, and place pver tlieir heads a fet of mini- ilers, who ^vere to hold the reins of governments, and all this to an'wer no good purpofe whatever, becaule the lame fervices could be obtained from fubordinate officers. In ihort, a board of treafury would conducTt the bufinefs of finance, with greater fecurity and fatisfaftion, than a lingle officer. He had a very good opinion of the gentle- man, wli formerly adminiltered the hnances of the United States, and doubted if another of equal qualities could be found ; but it was in-jpollible for any perlon, to give fatii- tisfac1:ion in fuch a ftation ; jea'oul'y wouid unavoidably be entertained, beiide no inconvenience relulted from the prefent arrangement of that department, therefore there couJci be no good reafon to induce a change. If the houfe was truly republican and conliitent, they would not admit officers, with or without title to pofi'efs Inch amazing pow- ers, as wouid eventually end in the ruin of the govern- ment. Unrler thefe imprcllions, he moved to amtnd the refolution, lb as to read, '' there lliall be eftabliffied a trea- fury department, at the head of which, there (hall be three pommifiioners, to be denominated the board of treafury.'' Mr. VVadswokth. My ofaciai duty, has led me often to attend at the trea- fury of the United States, and from niy experience, I vt;!- A. 1789. Of C O N G R E S S. 373 ture to pronounce, that a board of treafury the worlt of* is of all inrtitutions ; they have doubled our national debt, 1 I do not mean by this obfervation to cenfure any nian 1 who has been in that office, I prefuine they uere hontlt I men. and did as well as could be done under fuch a fyltein. J But 1 do not remember afuigle inftance,'in any o leboimi. that 1 found them to have a lyitem, that wculd give even iole« roble fatisfaclion ; there appeared a want ot coiifidenre in the members of them all they feemed to have no fixed : principles to guide them, nor refponfibility lor their con^ dud. J had alfo tranfaflions at the treafury, whilfl: it was ma- naged by a fuperintendant of finance, (as to what fell froiii the gentleman lad up, tho' without intention, I dare fay, to affect or prejudice the character of that officer, n)ay poiii- bly have fuch an effedl, I think it neceflary to Hate my lentinjents, which are formed from my own experience, as well as report.) 1 had great tranfaclions with him. and muft lay, that there did appear to be fydem in his managemenr, and refponfibility in his negotiations ; I fc und I dare rifk my fortune and character, becaufe there was unity them officer, and fome body in whom I could confide. The na- ture of the office, is better calculated to give fatisfaciion than the other. 1 wil' not pretend to enunjerate the h* vings he made, by introdi-cing oeconomy throughout the v.'hole departments under congrel's, becaufe I do not know them all, but they were very confiderable. The adniinif- tration of the finance was clear to the meaneit capacity; receipts and expenditures were flated fimply, they were publilhed to the world. The heads of the treafury depart- ment, the board of commiffioners, 1 do not believe have clofed their accounts to this very day. 1 do iiot fay, it is for want of ability, will, or honefl)', that this event has not taken place ; I conceive it to be owing to their want of fyftem, in conducting their bufinefs, 1 wilh the committee had before them, the tranfaftions of the board, for one Tingle month, they would find what I have remarked, to be too well founded ; inlfead of fvllem and refponiibihty, they would find nothing but confuiion and difcrder, without a pollibility of checkmg their accounts. I know 1 aui heard by one gentleman, who is acquainted with thefe iruthi by experience. * ^ // is frefumahle he alluded to Mr. Gerry^ formerly a commijjiofter ef the board of treafury. 3<74 DE B A T E S A. 1785,. I admit the truth of one cf the gentleman's obfervationSj, he favs, the officer n)uii: rilk his reputation ? Yes, fir, an officer who is highly rcfponfible, mult aU\ays rilk his cha- racter, but a patriot fpirit \v:H fubmit to this to {^ve his country. I know the clamour was raifed, as he has faid, afrainn: the financier, aiid I know clamour may be excited by envy, as well as by prudence or jultice. Clamour has been let up againd the (>ffice of prelident, under the pre- jent conftiiution; it is difficult to reconcile the fulpicious xnind, to a grant of power, lell it be employed againlt thsm ; fo many men have betrayed their truft, that they can have confidence in none but themfelves. But notwith- ftanding all that has been faid, with refpeft to the outcry a kI diituvbance, on accout of the finances being direded by- a (uperintetKJant, 1 will venture to allert, that it has not been greater than that which was raifed againft boards ; but be that as it may, the public bufinefs was better conduced, and the general interell better ferved our armies were ; iupplied with certainty and moved with celerity, which was an important objecfl, at that period of the war. I do not know that I have it in my power to juftify all the tranla'tions which took place under that adminiilration but ; thofe which came within my knov> ledge, feemed to be di- reaed with great precifion to their objeft namely, provi- ding for the public defence and promoting the welfare of the union they befpoke their condudlor to be mafter of the : jfcience he w.ss engaged in. The whole accounts of thefe tranfaclions have been long delivered to congrefs, and the rcafon why they are not decided upon, is becaufe their board of treafury has been without power or fyfcem to determine pn them. 1 do not wiih to hurt the feelings of the gen- tlemen in that office, I have a high refpedf tor them all, and think any one of them would be equal to the talk indi\i- iiually which all three together cannot perform. As to its being unpopukr to have a fecretary of the trea- fury, I Ihall only fet my opinion againll his 1 think ic ; rhe mou popular ftep vve can take it feems to be a pre- ; vailing icntiment among all conditions of men, that vve ouffht to have the higeft degree of refponfibility in every department of government. As to his being called a mini- fit r or a great man 1 have little to fear ; thepeople of Ame- j-ica will not be feared by men who iVile themfelves moit facred, moll omnipotent, and furely the gentleman does not fuppole cur fecretary of the treafury, will be the greai« eft mau on the face of the earth ? if we fear iiu ether, I A. 1789. Of congress. 375 truR we fhall not dread him. As to giving hi;n a large fala- ry, it is hardly pollible it would be io much as three com- miflioners of the trealury would expect ; for iny part, I fee no obligation we are under of giving him a large lalary ; we Ihall I truit give him a decent one. As to the name of the officer, I Ihall give that up wholly to the gentleman : he may chriften him as he pleafcs I will never difler about : words when I contend for fabdance. Ibeo-Ieave to repeat once more, that under boards of treafury, there never was a pouibility of the j^ubb'c know- ing their fituation there is no pollibility ci getting on ; with the public accounts and doling them ; there has TiOC been the tranlaftions of more then one of the great depart- T'lents them completely fettled, owing to a radical defeft in their conlb'tution they cannot proceed with that unity and ', As to what the gentle- decifion neceflliry to inf u'e jnltice. men faid, with refpecT: to the difficulty of getting a proper officer to fill the department, 1 will juil obferve, that I do not believe it impollible, and am therefore prepared to attempt it. Mr. Gerry allied, what he had faid tliat induced the gentletnan (iVIr. Wadfworth), to believe it tended to pre- judice the reputation of the late financier? Mr. Wads WORTH Replied, that (Mr. Gerry) had mentioned a clamor raifed aganlc him, asjd that it had not fubfided, becaufe his accounts were unfettled, he had therefore endeavoured to fliew the cau/e to which thefe circumflances were owing. Mr. Gerry Stated, that if fuch powers were given to a financier, he would be obnoxious and the people fufpicious this l\\['- ; picion would injure his reputation, becaufe it would be out of his power to prove them groundlefs. I mentioned a ta6t faid to prove this pofition, the facT: is notorious ; but I did not: mention it with a view to prejudice the gentleman, becaufe I believe the infuiuations charged agaitilt him in the public papers are without good grounds. Mr. Wadsv/orth Mat! underflnod the gentleman as he explained himfelf, but neverthelefs the exprellions were fo loofe as to leave the fufpicion rooin to maintain its ground he had recapi- ; tulated fafts alfo with an intention to do juflice to a cha- r.icler that had been, he apprehended, unjuftly ai;idwont only alperfed. 37(3 DEBATES Mr. Benson A. i)^: Stated, diat in the year