Amendments to the Constitution, [8 June] 1789 — reading text

Isiil. Mr. ViNiNG infnperable d'HIcultits in paffing fuch a law as this. ILviw Delaware and Jerfey flood in the i'ame predicamer.t as Con- necticut with refpeii't to an import law. Ke hoy-ed, there- fore, from a regard to thofe Itates, the bill would be given up he thought the belt v. ay to get rid of the buiinefs ; would be for the committee to rife. This bcins agreed to, Mr. Paiie faid, he was at alofsto t; p 1 1 J • make a reuuiar report, as tiie con)inutee had given no par- ticuiar inllruclions : bur, the truth was, tiiey delired to liavenothing mure 10 (Jo witli the bill. Whereupon it was ordered to lie on the table. The houfe then went into a committee of the whole on the report of the committee refpecting the inrolimcnt and prefervation of the acts ofcongreis, and to regulate the mcxie of prefenting addrefl'es, &c. to the prelident, and made fome progrei's ni conddering the fame ; alter which The rofe and rtp,orted — Adjourned. May 19. • A from the Senate by Mr. Otis tl^eir Tecretary. n.:e{r<;i7e Mr. Sotaker-^The Senate have appointed a committee, ro !i:i!; a conMisittee on the part of thishonie, to prefent to the Hrclidfiic of the United States, the bill, entitled, " an set 10 regulate the time and n:anner of adminiitering cer- tain oaths,'' after tiie fame Ihall be duly engrolled, ex- amined, and figned by tliC Speaker of this houle, and the preridcnt of the Sena:e. And then wiilKJrev/. Ordered, I'tiat Mr. Partridge and Mr. Floyd, be ap- pbiiued a committee on the part of this lioufe, or the pur- J pofe exprefled in the mellage from the Senate. '>• Mr. Sy'lvi'Tter, from the committee appo/nted to confer wiih'3?'ccmHnttee of the fenate, to coniider and report what t',i:v>lpa;:ers the members of congrc-fs lliali be furniu.ed wifh,' a-r the public expence, and to receive propofals for Gi-iming the acts, and other proceedii-igs of Congrefs, made a I'eporf, which was read, andoi dered to jie oij the table. 'i he hoafe on motion of Mr. Boudinot, rcfolved them- ielves into a committee of the whole on the (fate of the uni- en. A. 1789. Of C O N G R E S S. 547 Mr. BouDiNoT. I rife, Mr. Chairman, witii diffidence to inrr(Kkice a Tub. which had hopes }eS. to the coDfideration of the comniitcte, l would have been brought forward by an abler ha:,d tijc ; prelling neceHity of it alone be my cxcufe. •The iiiuil great executive departments wliith were in exiftence ur;der the late confederation, are now at an end, at- jealt fo far, as not to be able to condnft the bufinels of the United States. If we take np the prtfent conifuution, \^e Ihall . find It contemplates departmen:s of an exccuti\e nature in aid of the Prelid^nt it then remains for us to carry tliis in^ : tentioninto cfFecl, which I take it will be belt done by {et.- ling principles for organising them in this place, and af- terward appoint a fclect committee to braig in a biii for the fame. . I need fiv little to convirce gentlemen of the necefTiiy which prciles ns int.) a purfuic of this meainre. 1 hey know that our national debt isconliJerable, the interelt on <jnr for reign loans, arid the initalments due, amount to 2, coo, 000 dollars. This arrearape totrcther with the domeitic debt IS of great magnitude, and it will be attended with the nioit dreadful confequences, to let thefe aiiairo run into confu- fion and ruin, for want of proper regalaiionsto keep them in order. I ihall move tlie comiwittee therefore to come to foms fuch relblution as this :That an olficcr be eltabliaied for the mariJgement of the finances of the United States, at the head of which Ihall be an officer to be denominated ihc fecretaiy of hnance. J am not tenacious of the iiyie, per- haps fome other may be proper, but the objecl i have in view, is to ellabliih the department after v. Inch we may go ; on to narrate the amies of the ofhcer, ai:d accommodate tbe name to the acts he is to perform. The departmeiits under the late conUitution arc not to be models for us to form ours upon by reafon vi' the eiTential change which has tai-en place in the government, and the new uillribution or ie- giflative, executive ar.d judicial pov\-ers. If gentlemen then agree with me fo far, I fnaii proceed to reftrain the fecretary of tinatice, and all perions under hini, from being con.erned in trade or commerce, aiid niake it his duty to {upernnend the t;ea!ury and the hnances of the United States, examuie the jiubhc debts and engagements, infpedt the collection and exj)endltnre of the reveuue, and to form and digett plans for its iuiprovement There may ; i)e other duties which genilemen may add, as I do iioc pre*  ; 41 DEBATES A. 1789. tend to have perfe^Iy enua»crated them all. After this . poini: is fettled, we may then go to the confideration of the war clepartmenr, and the dcparrnicnt of foreign affairs but, for the prefent, I would with we were to confine oiir- 'fe'lve^to the department of finance. ' Mr. Bknson Wiilied the committee to conlider what he judged to be a previous quelVion, namely, how many departments there ihould be eltablifhed ? He approved of the divifion menti- oned by the gentleman, but would v/ith his leave move tiiat there be edabliihed iii a-d of the chief magiilrate three executive departments, to be feverally denominated, the department of foreign affairs, treafury, and war. After de- ttrmining this qutilion, if "it was a proper divilion, the comuiitiee might proceed to enumerate the duties which iliuuld be attached to each. Mr. BouDiNoT. Was net tenacious of the form he had thrown his motion jiito, it was thefublfance he contended for, he had there- :brc noobjeftiou to the gentleman's motion. While he was lip, he would correft a miflake into which he had fallen ; it refpecled the arrearage of the intereftand inftalments oi tlif foreign debc ; he had learned from good authority iince he fat down, that there was nothing due on this account, but Tiiac it was completely paid up to ihe prefent year ; but this did not do away the neceiTity of the prefent motion. Mr. Eland. Ob^ecled to the laft motion as too indefinite, and feared che committee would precipitate the bufinefs, if they did p.oc order the uioticris to lay on the table until tomorrow, or rather rife and refer it to be digefted by a feleft com- mittee. Mr. White Wifhed gentlemen had been more partfcular in bringing this queltipn forward, and had pointed out the nacure and €xtent of the pov/ers propofed to be given, that fo his imnd niight be able .to embrace the whole fubjett. Mr. BpUDiNOT. Said he could apologise tor not bringing th? bufinefs on in another way. It feemed.to be a fettled point in the houfe that a committee of the whole was the proper place for de- cermining prmciples before they were fent elfewhere ; he jiad thereforeadopted that mode on the prefent loccafion, xho' his own judgment would incline him to purlV.e thatlait luentioue.d by the gcntleniau from Virginia. (Mr. Bland) A. 1789. Of C O N G R E S S. 349 He conceived the necelTity of having fuch an office was in- difputable, the government could not be carried on without it but there may be a qaeftion with refpeft to the mode ; in which the buiinefs of the office ffiall be conduded ; there may alfo be a quellion refpeding the conrtitution of it ; but none with refpetlt to the ellablifliment of either of the three departments Jie had mentioned. Mr. Partridge Wifhed the committee to attend to one object at a time. If they had determined upon the propriety of the depart- ment of finance, they could go on to the next, and fo on until they had decided upon all they conceived neceflary ; for his part he could not fee any reafon for determining there fhould be three or five great departments, or v.hat was the obje6l of fuch a queftion, unlefs it was to decide the whole bufinefs at once. Mr. Benson Said, his motion was iounded upon the conflitutional di~ vifion of thefe powers ; the conititution contemplated them, becaufe it gave the prefident the right of requiring the opi- nion of the principal officer in each of the executive de- partments, upon any fubjecl relating to the duties of their refpective offices. If gentlemen were inclined to wave the determination for the prefent^ he had no objedion ; it was certainly a fubjecl of great importance, and required time for confideration. Mr. ViNiNG Thought the gentleman Ihould have added another de- partment, viz. the home department. The territorial pof- feihons of the United States, and the domellic affairs, would be objefls of the greateft magnitude, and he fufpeded would render it efjbntialiy requifite to eflablifh fuch au one. Mr. Boudinot wifhed to confine the queflicn to the de- partment of finance. A motion was made by Mr. Bland for the commi.ttee'i- rifing. Mr. Madison Hoped they would not rife until the principles were fet- tled. He thought it much better to determine the out- lines of all bufinefs in a committee of the whole ; he was fatisned it would be found, on experience, to fhorten their deliberations. If the gentlemen who had offered motions to the committee would withdraw them, he would ofier one, which he judged hkely to embrace the intentions of oth {leutlemen. 350 DEBATES Mr. Benfon withdrew his mo' ion, and Mr. Madlfon A. 1789, moved, that it is the opinion of this cornmittte, chat there ihall be eltablilhed an execiiiive department, to be denomi- nated the department of foreign affairs; at the head of •which there iiiall be an officer, to be calltd, the fecretary to tlie department of foreign affairs, \vholhall be appointed by the prelicUnv, by and with the advice ar,d confent of the fenate; and to be removeable by the prefident. 'i hat there Ihali be a treaftiry department, Sec. And there ihall be a war department, &c. Mr. ViNiNG Seconded the motion, and offered to amend it, by adding the domeltic departnient, mutatis mutandis. He faid this departcnent, in his o{)inion, was of abrohite neceHity, more requifite than either of the other three, except the depart- ment of Hnance ; the prefent and encrealing duties of fuch a department will oblige them to make the eitablilhment. Mr. LlVERMORE Was not prepared to decide on the queflion evenasnowr brou^-rht forward, nor did he fee a. rtafon why the de- partment of foreign affairs was placed at the head of the lirt. He thought the treafury departnient of more impor- '.taiice, and coulequtntiy delerved the precedence. As to the doii:e{lic department juil nientioued by the gentleman from Delaware, he thought its duties might be blended wuh the others, and thereby lave the United States the expence of one grand