Amendments to the Constitution, [8 June] 1789 — reading text

place the pov/er in the hcnle of originating money bills. The principal rcafon why the Conititution had made this dif- linclion was, becaufe they were chofen by the people, and I'uppofed to be baft acquainteil with their intereft and ability. In order to make them more particulnrly acquainted witlt thele objects, the democratic branch of the legillaturc con- filted of a greater number, and were chofen tor a fliorter $20 DEBATES period, that fo they might revert more frequently to the A. 17S9,- mais ot the people. Now, if a revenue law was made per- petual, however unequal its operation might be, it would be out of the power of this houfe to effect' an alteration ; for if the Prefident chufed to objed: to the nieafure, it would require two-thirds of both lioufes to carry it. Even if the houle of reprelentatives were unanimous in their opinion that the law ought to be repealed, they would not be able to carry it unlels a very great majority appeartd in the Senate alfo. He obferved that an honorable gentleman had thought that no appropriation of the public money could be made for a longer ter^n tiian two years ; this was very true, as it related to the fupportof armies ; but the queltion here did not appear to be refpefting the appropriation. It was the revenue iti(?lf, which without any appropriation, might continue flowing into the public trealury independanc o|- the v.'il! of the people, and might thereby become , a convenience in the hands of fcJine other department of the government, for the purpofe of opprefTion. Experience alfo mio-ht forcenblv (\i(To-e(l, the neceihty and importance of alteaations in the law, yet without tliis clanfc, it n:ioht never be in the power of the houfe to remedy thole de- feas. Mr. BouDiNoT. Said, he was in favor of the motion at the firft view, bu£ itwas w^ithotit proper confideration, he had attended to the arguments with a great denre of obtaining information, the confequence had been, that fuch difficulty arofe in his mind on the lubjeft, that he was not prepared to give his aifent to it. He confidered the want of public eredit as one of the greateft evils the legiflature had to encounter ; that fuch had been our fituation for a long time under the late governjnent, that we are unable to perform any of the functions neccfTary to promote the public w eltare. From this melancholy confideration he was induced to join in every ccnflitutional meafure to promote fo laudable an end. He did conceive that if the prefcnt bill was limited in its operation or duration, it would equally prevent the growth of public credit. Now, he thought, unlcfs ibme very valuable advantage was to rciult from this limitation, which gentlemen had in view, it ought not to be adopted, for his part, he could difcover none ; he conlidered a law al- ways to be in the power of the legiflature, it was true there wcic checks to prevent a halty repeal^ or adoption of  k. 17S9. Of c b n G R £ s s. ^ti any meafure whatfoever. Thefe checks were no doubc intended for a wife purpofe, the Conllitution had giveil them, and it was a fair inference to ilippofe that the Senate Ought to be triifted in this pairticular as well as the houfe. He did not apprehend any danger trom the money being in the treafury, becaufe it could not be touched without: the fpecial appropi-iation of Gongreis, the receipts and ex- penditures of the public revenue inuit be publifhed, which was Jin additional fecurity. He apprehended chat the limi- tation would not be equal to the dema:nds of government, becaufe he thought they woiJld continue unl'atisfied for 3 longer term than gentlemen leeined willing to allow the law to exill. The tims mentioned by the former Con- grefs, and to which they reqnelted the concnrrence of the feveral (tates, was, that the impolt duties might be conti- nued for twenty-hve years. This reqaeft was made on full tonfideration, and they tfid not think it was more than fuf- ficient to difcharge the princii-)al and intereli: of the national debt. He concluded, therefore, that it was better to lee the law remain aithout limitation, becaufe when they found the purpofes tor which it was intended were acconi- plifhed, it would be in the power of Congrefs to repeal the: Mr. LAWRAHtR Thought the prefent q'lellion u as a fubjec^ of great ImJ portance, and he lamented it was not brought forward at art' earlier period, becaufe he feared the time would not allow ihat full difculiion or deliberaticri which ought to take place. He wifhed alfo that the houfe were acquainted ^^'ith the neceihties of the United States, that fo they mighc make proviiron accord nigly, btrt thele two points wcres mere matter of fpeculation as to their precife amount yet ; he believed it was agreed on all hands, that the ways and means provided in this bill for the fapport of government^ the payment of inter eft and inllalments, of the foreign and domelfrc debt, were, fo far as agreed to, ii;iadequ3te 10 tha object: ; ifthisisthe cafe, the ptrblic debt niull: accumulate^, and as we do not know when the time mUy come for iia extinguilhrnent, the proviiion cannot be limited ; for every g'*'ntleman will agree, that if the demand for revenue ij. inTceaftiig, the fund ought to be commenfuraje to wirh t.he object. Is'there any rmve when the civil lift will ceafe it$' Jeinand ; if there is not, there will be a pt/rpetuai call for revenue. He thought it abfolarely impodible to provicJc i'cT the payr.rent of th'c debts,- if tire bill was limited to two^ 322 DEB A T E S A. 17^9. three, or four years ; fuch a precarious provifion would never tend to the re eliabliihuient oi public credit. It the billwas no: limited, it would always be in the power of the legiilarure to lower the duties, or make Pich other al- teraiion as niiolu,upon experience, be thought beneficial to the coiumuuity whereas if the bill was limited, it would ; be thought improper to make any aiueiidments during the term for which it is enna^liied, although thofe amendments appeared indiipenlibly neceilary. But why is this de- gree of c:i,uioa nticelTary ? V/ill not the adiniaiftration of public affairs be in future conduced by reprefentatives as good as ourfelves will they have lefs wii'doin or virtue :"* to dilcover and purfue the good of their fellow citizens than we liave ? > As to the appropriation of this revenue, he was forry the information before the houfe did not warrant them to pro- ceed to that part of the bufinefs he hoped it might be : well done at fome future period, but till it was done not: a farthing of the revenue could be paid. out of the treafury. Where inuli the hill for the ill annropriation oripinate "^ ? . it mud: be liere. TYs.t:n what ground have the houfe to fear the check of the Senate, or Prefident, in a cafe where they fHil retain all the j>ov'er in their own own hands ? for it is as much in their power to limit this bill, by liniiting the appropriation, as it is by the claufe now propofed. If lie iuppofed the liberties of the people u oulJ be en- dangered unlel's the motion obtained, he m'oit furely v.'ould be in fupport of it but lie thought the liberties of the ; people would ever be fure, while they chofe men of wif- dom and integrity to reprefent them. He had no reafon to believe the people would be inattentive to this great privilege, and if it was exercifed with dilcretion, there was no i-eafon to apprehend that Congrefs would continue to collect an opprefTive revenue, after the objcft for which it was impofed has ceafed to exifh He was well perfuaded if the bill was liuiited, it would have the eiTccT; the gen- tleman froni Jerity (Mr. Sinnickfon) mentioned, namely, th:;t i;f injuring the ptiblic credit. Mr. Blano. Our p'tblic credit confiifs of two branchfs ; firfl, as it refpects tiie evideiKres of our debt, in the hands of thofe from whom we have had money or fervices and fecondly, ; as it refpecis our ai)iiity to bunow in future. Now, the firif branch of public credit depends upon the puiiclualiiy ^^ ith svhith the intcreii is pa'd, but tli!?, in i'ortion nation?.  A, 1789. Of CONG !i £ S S. does x\ot depend upon the limitation of the zA ; the other branch will be in proportion as we discover lioneily, and ability to perform our contracts. To liippole, thereiore that paffing an unalterable law will iiave this efFeil is ab- furd. Do gentlemen fuppofe our laws like thofc of the Medes and I'erlians unchangeable? Can any perfon^ who has read our Conllituiion, believe that it is in our power topafs a law without limitation? no^ it is impolhble. Evejy perlbn knows that a luture Congre fs may repeal ijii,s and every other law we ihall pals, as much as they think proper. Taking the fubjecc in this point cf view, gen- tlemen would fee, that the arguments in favor of a,perpe- tual revenue v/ere more fpeciuus than folid ; while thofe for a limitation contemplated the belt and iafeft means of avoiding difficulty, in the repeal or alterations which here- after might be thought neceilary. ^vJothing but experience could demonitrate the propriety or impropriety of the prefent meafures ;, therefore they ought to be adopted merely by way of trial. The government ought to be cautious in it jirfl; fetting out, leii; it alarm the people, and he thought his conliitueiits would be much alarmed, if they conceived the pow.er of the purfe tobe given into the hands of the other branches of the government. x lie Conltitu- tion had particularly entrulted thehouie of Reprefentativcs with the power of railing money ; great care was i:ecef. f^ry to preferve this privnege nivioJaie, it was one of the greateft fecurities the people had for their liberties under this government, .^yloreover, the iinportance of tlie houle itfelf depended upon holding the purfe itrings ; if they oncii? parted with this power they would become really infignifi. cant, and the other branch of the legidature miii^ht become altogether independent of tiiem. For cheie reafons he was in favor of the motion of his hqnorable colleague and hoped it would obtain. Mr. Gerrv There fcems to bp a great variety of opinions eiitertaiiiv cd by gentlemen on this quettiot^ But he thought th.ey '. vvould_, all agree upon thefe two ppinis hrlt, that there' ; were very great demands upon the federal treaiury and, ; fecondly, that they had no kiiid of documents to (hew what;, tlieywere, or what the revenue bill v/ould produce, Undejg^ thefe circumllances gentlemen mu(t agree, that therein, danger of paihuir a law that would operate oppreiliveiy, and without fufticientreafon. There was alfo danger ©f erring in the mode of collecting for want of exRcrience.  324 DEBATES to guide