Amendments to the Constitution, [8 June] 1789 — reading text

Vice-Prefident, would nnply that ihe houfe meant that fome rtile or title fhould be given ; now this, they never could intend, becaufe they hdve decided, thjt no' flile or title ought to be given — it will be (uffi'. lent to ad- duce this realon for not complying with the requell of the Senate. Mr. Jackson Wondered what title the Senate had in contemplation to add dignity or luftre to the perfon that filled the prefidential Chair, for his part he could conceive none. Would it add to his fame to be called after the petty and inflgnificant princes of Europe ? would ftiling him. his Serene Highnefs, His Grace, or Mightinefs, add one tittle to the folid pro- perties he poffeiied f he thought it would not ; and there- fore conceived the propohtion to he trifling with the dig- nity of the government. As a difference had taken place between the two Houfes, he had no objection to a confe- rence takinp- place, he hoped it might be productive of good confequences, and the Senate be induced to follow the laud- able example of the Huufe. Mr. Madison. Was of opinion, that the Houfe might appoint a commit- tee of conference without being fnppofed to countenance the meafure. The (landing rule of theKoufe declared, that, in cafe of difagreeing votes, a committee of conference fl;ould be appointed ; now, the cafe' provided for mthe rule had adually happened, he inferred that it was proper A. 1789. C O Of N G R. E S S. 2S9 to proceed in the manner directed by the rules of the Houfe the fnbjecT: was ftill open to difcufiion, but there ; was httle probability that the Houfe would refcind their adoption of the report. I prefume gentleoien do not in- tend to compel the Senate into their meafures they Ihould ; recoiled:, that the Senate llnnd upon independent ground, and will do nothing but what they are convinced of the propriety of; it would be better, therefore, to treat iliem with delicacy, and offer fo:ne reafons to induce theai to come into our meafure. He expelled this would be the refult of a conference, and therefore was in favour of fuch a motion. Mr. Seney Intended nothing difrelpedful to the Senate, but he con. ceived, after having adopted the report of the committee, it would deroiiate from their own din;nity to refcind an un- animous refolution ; and tor what other purpofe could a conference be appointed by the Houfe ? they muit certainly fuppofe, that there might be ground for changing their opinion; nothing of this kind appeared tohini, and there- fore he was of opinion, it would be an ufelefs confumptioii to wade any more time about it. Mr. Clymer Thought there was little occahon to add any title to eitht^r the"Prefidentor Vice-Prelident. He was very well convinced by experience that titles did not confer power ; on the contrary, they frequently made their poiTeiTors ridi- culous. The moft impotent potentates, the mod infignifi- cant powers, generally aiTumed the highefl and mod lofty titles. That they do not indicate power and prerogative is very obfervable in the Enghlh hillory ; for when the chief magiltrate of that nation wore the fimple flile of his Grace or Highnefs, his prerogatives were much "more ex- tenfive, than fmce he has become, His Moll Sacred Ma- jefty. Titular diflinftions are faid to be unpopular in the United States, yet a perfon would be led to think otherwife from the vafl: number of honorable gcntlenien we have in Ame- rica. As foon as a man is felected for the public fervice, his fellow citizens with liberal hand Ihovv'er down titles on — him either excellency or honorable. He would venture to aitirm there were more honorable efquires in the United States than all the world befule. He wifhed to check a propenlity fo notorioufly evidenced in favour of diitinc^ tions^ and hoped the exnmple of the Houfe might prevai.l Oo 290 DEBATES A. 178^. to extinguilh what prediledion that appeared in favour of titles. Mr. Page. If I thotight the motion made by my colleague in the leaft degree difrefj ediful, I ihould not have feconded it. I would be the laft man on this floor to treat that worthy body with dilVefped; ; but I believe it cannot be conltrued to have luch a meaning ; if we were to let the refolu»^!on lie oii the table it would not be JiiVefpe^^fal. But what is the oly- jeft of the motion? fimply to inform the Senate, that we cannot refcind a reiolution adopted in confequence of the report of a joint committee, li the conduct of either Hoiiie is in the lead degree dilrelpectful (though I do not conceive it is), rhe body who declined adi ji-ting the report, after knowing the lenfe of the other 10 be in its favour, is the molt fo. But on what are a committee to confer ? nor upon what title :hall be befiowed, becaufc we have no right to enrer on the fibjecl ; and here I mull tell gentienen I differ from ihem when they rhink titles can do no harm. 1 itles I fay, bir, may do har'n, and have done harm. If we con- tend now for a right to confer titles, I apprehend the time will come when we fliall form a refervoir for honor, and make our Prefident the fountain ot it ; in fuch cafe, may not tiiies do an injury t(} the union ? They have been the occafion of an eternal facT:ion in the kingdom we were for- merly cormedted with, and may beget Hke incjuietude in Aoierica ; for I contend, if you give the title, you muft follow it with the robe and the diadem, and then the prin« ciples of your government are fubverted. Mr. Ltre moved the previous queiiion, as the befl: mode of getting rid of the motion before the Houfe : he ^^as fupported by a liiiticient number. And on the quefiion, Sliaii tlie main qneftion be nov,' put ? it paffed in the nega- ii\'e ; and fo the motion was loft. On motion, it was was refolved, that a committee be ap- pointed, to join with (beh committee as the Senate may a^,>point, CO confer on the difagreeing votes of the two Houfes, upon the report of their joint committee, appoint- ed to contider what titles ihall be given to the Prelident and Vice Pi-efident oi the United Slates, if any other than thofe given in the Coniliintion, MeiTrs. Madifon, Page,, Benton, Truinb'ill and Sherman were the committee elected. The Ploule then wem uito a comuiitiee of the whole on 'he iixipcll bill. A. i;89. Of C O N G R E S S. 29T The queftion on the article of molafles came before the committee. Mr. i UCKER. Notwithflandir.g 1 am anxious for a reduftion of the duties on the articles in the bill, yet my /ote on niolal- all fes Will Deregulated by .vhat the committee Ihall deteniiine in other cales, as I do not conceive it to be out ot propor- tion. If a general reduction takes place on the other arti- cles, I lliallbe difpofed to make a redudion on this article ; but as mine is but a iingle vote, gentlemen may not be inclined to favour my propoiition tor a general reduction, in order to gain my aifcnt toaredudion on this particular article. Mr. Goodhue Was of opinion, that the duties were too hi^h for co]. leftion ; but he did not agree with the gentleman from South-Carolina (Mr. Tucker), that the duty on molaii'eb was rated in proportion to the other articles, and theretcrK the queftion, whether molailes Ihall be reduced or not, did not depend on a general reduction, but on its own bottom j if it was rated too high for collection and proportion, the committee would agree t) reduce it. Mr. FiTZSiMoKs Expeded the gentleman from South-Carolina would vote in the manner he had pledged himlelt ; he had pro- piifed to vote for reducing the duty on molafles it the com- mittee reduced the duty on otlier articles now, as they ; had decided againll a reduction, he hoped the gentleman would be in favor of the duty on molalies, as it lluod m the bill, and not vote in the manner he had prcimlcd. Mr. Tucker. The gentleman laft up has certainly mii'underftood me, I made no prornife, I faid my vote would depend upon the reduftion of the other articles, but 1 was indifferent as to rum; I did jiot confider the Itate I reprefented as being either particularly benefitted or injured by a duty gn rum ; and therefore did not urge any argument.% in favor of re- ducing that article, more than I thought it might be pro- per to preicrve the ratio, as fixed by the Houle, between the feveral articles. If gentlemen think rum can bear a high duty, anil be fafely collected, 1 have no objection to Jetting it remain. But there are fome articles that bear heavily and unequally upon South-Carolina ; now, I think it my duty to vote in fuch 3 manner as to prevent her from bearing an undue proportion of the tax to be collected ; i. 292 DEBATES am coiirequenily obliged to vote for a high tax on articles A. 1789, ufecl in other Itates, (if my itate is highly taxed) however unequally it may fall. I ihall therefore vote fo as to en- deavor to oblige other ftates to bear their true proporiiori of the aggregate ium. I wifh to defer any determination on the article of molalTes until we have gone through the other articles, that I may know how to vote on this. If gentlemen think my fingle vote of no confequence they may proceed ; but I may think the duty too high on niolaf- fes, and may be difpofed to make it five cents, or lefs, if a reduction made in the other articles ; but I would not is; be underlfood to pledge myfelf for any particular fum. Mr. Ames Thought the gentleman from Pennfylvania (Mr. Fitz- liinmons) had milunderllood the gentleman from South- (Mr. Tucker) relpesSting hio pledging hmifelf to (^'aroliiia vote in favour of m.olaiTes he believed the gentleman from ; South-Carolina incapable of njaking any iniproper accomo- dation either on this or any other occafion ; the fubje;5l had iiever been mentioned to him nor he believed to any bo- dy elfe, much lefs, could the gentlemans intention be the refult of bargain or compromife, for his own part he would never confent to fuch a degradation ot his rights as a member of the houfe, as to fiipulate for the exercife of his opinion. Mr. Tucker. If the gentleman from Pennfylvania (Mr. FitT^fimons) fuppoles that 1 have bargained to vote fur or againit any jueafure, he does me wrong, and if he charges me with fuch ai^licns, I dehre he may Hate his reafons and explain him- lelt ; I did not hear perfeftly what he faid when he was up betore, and therefore did not refute any improper conltruc- xion he might have put on my arguments. Mr. FiTZsiMONS no difliculty in declaring his meaning, he under- 1 tad itood when the article of rum was under conilderation that The gentleman held out a promife to vote for the redudiion ol the duty on molaHes if the cummiitee would agree with hnn in reducing generally ; this promife was not made in a private ir,anner, it vvas made by the gentleman in his place, liecould not recite the particular expreffion of the gentle- 3i3anbut he underftood from it that the