Amendments to the Constitution, [8 June] 1789 — reading text

fee the necellity of turning their attention to the encouragement of navigation and trade, rather than think of drawing an oppreliive revenue from them. When gentlemen compaie thefe duties with thofe col- Icfltd in Great Britain, they ought to confider that the mercantile capital in this country bears no kind of propor- tion to the capital of that kingdom • when gentlemen tell us that England raifes four times as much by way ot impoft, do they not know that the capital engaged in the commerce of that nation is ten times as great as in America, if they admit this then it follows, that" we cannot pretend with equal eafe to levy a quarter of what is there colieded. i do not pretend to deny the neceflity we are under of raifmg revenue, or that an impoit is the moil certain and agreeable mean in our power, but I contend againlt drain- ing the duties fo high as to njake them bunhenfome, and occaiion the eflabliilnnent of a clandedine trade, which v.ill prove dcilruchve of the end we aim at. Mr. Madison Submitted, whether the burthen would not operate more on the fouthern dates than the northern, the duties could be collected in the middle Rates, this was proved by the experience of fome years ; for they had collected in thofe itates, in many indances, duties nearly equal to what were propofed. In the eaftern ihies, it was the interefl of the manufadlurers to fee the duties were well collected, they had been impofed to favor their interefts. The dif. i8o tillers DEBATES A. 1789. would exert themfelves in aiding of the government to colled the duty on foreign rum, becaule it particularly interfered with country rum — from hence he conciudcdj that the impoft tould be colleded with tolerable certainty, even in that country moft convenient for carrying onaclani deftine trade. Mr. Ames Contended that it would be the particular intereft of one fet of men to evade the payment of the duties, as mankind was governed by intereft, it required all the attention of the government to prevent a breach of the law, becaufe, when the banks and bulwarks of defence were once broken down, the full tide of clandefline commerce would overflow the country. Gentlemen recolieded the circumliances which attended the depreciation of the late Continental money ; fome perfnns, from motives of interell or neceility, firft made a diltindtion between it and fpecie, and airhough every exertion was made by the patriotic among our citizens to prevent the alarming evil, yet every thing was infufficient, they were at length obliged to acqaiefce in meafures they could not prevent. This was the cafe on that occafion, and will be the cafe whenever our laws or regulations run counter to private incerefl. Mr. Sherman The gentleman from MafTachufetts (Mr. Ames) has faid that becaufe we cannot raife the whole fum necefl'ary to fup- ply our wants, v/e Ihould be content to flop half way, I know weihall not be able to obtain money enough by the impoft to pay off our whole debt, but then I wilh to raife as njuch as pofTible in this way. I believe the people are able to pay as much as the neceilities of the government re- quire, if they are not, we Ihall never reftore the public credit, which is one of the chief ends of our appointment. I believe they are not only able but willing to contribute fufficient for this purpofe, the refources of this country are very great if they are properly called into action, and al- though thty may not be fo great as thofe of Britain, yet it fliould be remembered that nation has occafion for twelve times as much revenue as the United States. Gentlemen have had recourfe to popular opinion in fup- port of their arguments. Popular opinion is founded in juftice, and the only way to know if the popular opinion is in favour of a meafure, is to examine whetlier the meafure is juft and right in itfelf. I think whatever is proper and right the people will judge of and comply with. A. 1789. Of congress. ^ir The people wifh that the government may derive refpeft from the juftice of its meafures, rhey have given it their fupport on this account. believe the popular opinion is I in favour of raifing a revenue to pay our debts, r.nd if we do right they will not neglecl their duty ; therefore the arguments that are urged in favour of a low duty, will prove that the people are contented with what the bill pro- pofes. The people at this time pay a higher duty on im- ported rum, than wh'dt is propofed in this fyftem, even iii MaiTachuffetts ;it is true, it is partly laid by way of ex- cife, but I can fee no reafon againft doing it in this way as well as the other. The article of molalTes is a good deal ufed in that coiiri- try, but I do not think it fo much a neceflary of life but: what every citizen could live without it and I believe the ; people would be very well contented to contribute their proportion of the public expences by a fmall duty on that: article ;thofe who confume foreign luxuries are generally- able to pay for them. When gentlemen have recourfe to public opinion to fupport their arguments, they generally hnd means to accommodate it to their o\Vn ; the reafon why I think public opinion is in favour of the prefent mea- fure is, becaule this regulation in itfelf is rea'fonable and Some gentlemen think a iyftem of moderate duties will be capable of improvement, every fubfequent year they may be encreafed, and fo become more and more produc- tive. If we were on the eve of a future war, in which it is prefumeable our expences would encreafe, fuch policy might be proper ; but as we want it only to pay a certain debt, the demand will decreafe, and we Ihall have lei's oc- cafion for an encreafe of revenue. I thinlc if we fhould not fupport public credit now we have the abilitv, the people will lofe all conhdence in the government. When they fee public bodies Ihrink from their duty, what can be expedled but they will neglect theirs alfo ? It cannot be for the interefl ot the people of the United States that they fiiould continue to pay a high in- tereft, and fufFer an accumulation of the principal of the national debt till fome diftant period. Will any gentlemaa alTure us that the people will then be better able to pay it off than at prefent? have they any certain evidence that we fhall grow richer as we delay the eftablifnment of our credit, and the payment of our debts? I think they have not J therefore it is bell: to get out of debt as fait as poffible, N 11  ; 282 DEBATES A. 1789, and while we have the command of funds amply fufficient for the purpofe. Mr. Lawrance. It has been intimated by gentlemen in favour of high duties, that it will limit the coniumption of foreign articles if this is the cafe the quantity imported will be lefTened; if it is our objecl to raife revenue, it is certainly unwife to deitroy the objeClfrom which the revenue is to be colledt- ed It is fuppoied the amount of the duties will be infuf- ficient to anfwer the public wants ; and yet the public creditors have great expectations from this resource, let us therefore be careiul how we deitroy it ; if revenue is our primary objeft, and the other confiderations but fecon- dary, we ihould do nothing to operate againfl: that prin- ciple. Mr. Madison. It does not follow, becaufe ic will in fome degree limit the coniumptiouj that we ought not to lay a high duty on rum, if it has that effeft it will be an ample compenfation for the, tofs of revenue but probably, as we extinguHh ; our debt, we Ihall have the lefs occafion for the revenue itfelf. , , , Mr. Goodhue. The objeft of the committee is to raife revenue I take it, this would, perhaps, be beft done ,by reducing the duty • but 1 am r.oc inclined to reduce it fo low as fome gentle- men leem to detire, it may be reduced a few cents, and therei'ore I move to infert ten inftead of twelve. The quefticn was taken for ilriking out the 12 cents, as it flood in the bill. On all fpirits of Jamaica proof, imported from the dominions of nations in alliance with the United States, in order to leave it blank to be filled up hereafter. T-lie Houte divided on the queltion, 19 -n favour of the motion, and 26 againlt it. So it paffed in the negative.— Adjourjied. May II. A commiitee, confiding of MefTrs. White, Scott, and Sturgis, was apponited to confer with the ccnnnittee ap. pointed by the Senate, to view and report in what manner the rooms in the City-1-iall ihall be appropriated. The Houfe took into confideration the meffage from the Senate, connnunicated on S.aurday laft, relpeding the dif- agreement of the Senate to the report of a joint committee, on the fubjeft of annexing titles to the office of I'rcfident and Vice.Preiidei.it.  A. 1789. Of C O N G R E S S. 283 Mr. Parker moved a refolution to the following effeit ; Relblved, That this Houfe having, on Tueiday lalt, adopt- ed the report of their committee, appointed to confer with a committee of the Senate, Itating, " That it is not proper to annex any ityie or title, to the relpedive ilyles or titles of office exprefled in the Condi tution ;" and having, in their addrefs to the Prelident of the United States on Fri- day lad, proceeded toaft purfuant thereto, deem it impro- per to accede to the propofition made by the Senate, as communicated by their order of the 9th inl^ant, for ap- pointing a committee to confer with a committee of this Houfe, in confidering and reporting, under what title it will be proper for the Prelident of the United iitates in future to be addreil'ed. Mr. Page Seconded the motion, obferving, that in his opinion the houfe had no right to interfere in the bufinefs, the coniti- tution exprefsly prefcribed the power of Congrefs as to bellowing titles. He did not conceive the real iionpr, or dignity, of either of thofe fituations to confift in high found- ing titles. The houfe had, on a former occafion, exprtll- ed their difapprobation of any title being annexed to their own members, and very jultly too. After having fo fully and explicitly declared their fentiments againil fuch mea„ fures, he thought it behooved them to be explicit wirh the Senate. Indeed, he feithimi'elf a good deal hurt, that gentlemen on this floor, after having refufed their per. million to the clerk to enter any more than their plain names on the journal, iliould be flanding upand addrelling one another by the title of " the honorable gentleman '* he vvifhed the pracTtice could be got over, becaufe it added neither to the honor nor dignity of the houfe. Mr. Lee Approved of the appointment of a committee to con- fer with a committee of the Senate, as the mode due to the occafion, but he was againd adding any title. Mr. Tucker. When this bufinefs v/as firll brought before the Houfe, I objecled to the appointment of a committee to confer with a committee of the Senate ; becaufe I thought it a fubjefl which this Houfe had no right to take into confi- deration, I then ftood fingle and unfuppcrred in my opi. nion, but have had the pleafure to find iince^ that fome gentlemen on this floor agree that I was right. If I was then right, I /liall, from