Amendments to the Constitution, [8 June] 1789 — reading text

recur to othtr four- 262 DEBATES A. 1789. ces for information, and then, unlefs the circuraflances are ahke, the comparifon may not be true ; we have been re- ferred to the experience of other nations, if that is to guide us on this fubjed, I am fure we Ihall find precedents for going much farther than is now propofed. If I do not m\i'. take, the calculations that 1 have ieen of duties on importa- tion, tliey amount to more on an average than 15 per cent. the duty on ardent fpirits in all nations, exceed what is in contemplation to be laid in the United States. I am fenfi- ble that the means which are ufed by thoi'e nations to en- fure the colledion, would be odious and improper in this country ; but I believe the means which this country is ca- pable of ufing, without exciting complaint or incurring too much expence, would be as adequate to fecuring a duty of 15 per cent, as the powers of any ether nation could be to obtain 90 or 100 per cent. If we confuk the experience of the United States, it does not admonifti us that we aie pro- ceeding too tar ; there are duties now under colletilion, in fome ftates, that amount nearly to the fame as thofe we have in contemplation. A duty collefted under the feeble opera- tion of the (late governments, cannot be fuppofed beyond our powers, when thofe duties have been collected by them, with feeble powers, but under a competition, not 10 lay oppoii- tion of the neighbouring (tares. 1 am led, from a knowledge of thefe circumllances, to believe that when we have eftab- liOied fome general rule, and have the co-operation of all the members of the union, we Ihall be able to do what is propo- fed by this bill, better than any one ftate could execute it with their feparate ffrength. If we confult the opinion of the merchants, we ihall not find them a very fure guide, merchants do not pretend to infallibility ; but if they did, they have given a proof to the contrary, by their difference in opinion on this fubjeft. Gentlemen of that profefiion, both within thefe walls, and out of doors, have been as much divided on this point as any other defcription of men. I believe them to be the beft informed as to the probable effecis of an impoft fyflem, but they are not exempt from the infirmities of human nature, we know there is an efTen- tial difference between the intereft of merchants and the jntereft of connnerce ; we know there may be diftinclions also between the intereft of commerce and of revenue, and that in fome cafes we muft facrifice the one to the other, I am not fure that Vv'e are not under the necelTity of doing both in the bufincfs before us, it is barely matttr of opinion what revenue the general government Vv'ill be able to draw A. 1789. Of C O NG R E S S. 263 from the fyftem now propofed. It being matter of opinion I have endeavoured to make up mine, from the bed mate- rials in my power. I pay great refped to the opinions of mercantile gentlemen, and am willing to concede much to them, fo far as their opinions are regulated by experience ; but if I am to be guided by this information, it will not lead me to agree to the reduction of the duties in the man- ner contended for ; it is faid that if we reduce at all, we muft go through the whole; now I doubt whether the duty on the article of rum exceeds tliat proportion which pervades the long liil before us ; it does not amount to more than 30 per cent, while loine other articles ftand at forty; forne articles again that are not enumerated, but which fall within the general mafs at 5 per cent, are more likely to be introduced clandeltinely than this article if it flood at 50 per cent. I am fure if we reduce the whole fyltem in the manner now propofed, all the duty we fhall be able to col- led will be very incompetent to what the public neceilities demand. We mufl: turn our eyes then to fome other fource that will fill up the deficiency ; there are but two objects to which in this dilemma we can have recourfe, di- red taxation and excifes; direct taxation is not contempla- ted by any gentleman on this floor, nor are our conilituents prepared for fuch a fyftem of revenue ; they exped it will not be applied to until it is found that fufiicient funds can- not be obtained any other way. Excifes would give par- ticular difgurt in fome Hates, therefore gentlemen will not make up the deficiency from that quarter. I think upon the whole, it is better to try what will be produced by a plan which is favoured by the public fentiment ; this will give a fupport to our laws equal to the greatefl energy of a flrong execution, the citizens of America know that rheir individual intereft is connefted with the public, we fhall thenhave the flrong motive of intereft ading in favor of the government in a peculiar manner, but I am not inclined to trull too much to this fecurity, I would take in the aid of; the bell regulations in our power to provide, thefe ading in concert would give a moral certainty to the faithful collec- tion of the revenue ; but if gentlemen notwithflanding will perfilt in contending agajndfuch a fyilem and cannot offer us afubftitute, we mult fail of the primary objed for which the government was created. If upon experience we find that the duties cannot he lafely colledcd, it may be proper to re- dace them, but if v/e fet them too low in the firll inftance, and they do not yield a fuiHciency to anfwer the iull de- 264 DEBATES A.17B9, mands of the public creditors, and the expences of o-cvern- ment, the pubhc reputation inuil fuffer. I jieed not inforin trenrlemen we are furrounded with difficulties,they fee them on every fide but they appear ; as few and as funnountable on the fide of the bill, as they do in anv other part of the profpei!;!:. If we give way on this article we are to do fo upon all others. It i^ not for any reafon peculiar to Jaiuaica fpirits that the redudlion is moved for ; hence, I conceive, if gentlemen meet with fuc- cefs on this occadon, we Ihall be reduced to a fyfteip. inade^. quate to our wants, and thereby defeat the chief objcdl of our appouitment. Mr. Bland. I join with the gentlemen who are difpofed to lower the duties, although I feel the necellity we are under of raifing revenue as much as any other gentleman pofnbly can, yet I think we ought to deliberate fully upon the means before we adopt them. It is demonrtraLIe, nay it is felf-evident, that layiijg high duties, in the firlt inihujce, will beget finuggling, and I fear our regulations, rcfpedl- ing the colledion, will prove the impradicability of defeat- ing the praftice. But when we come to confider the fub- jeci in another point of view, I truii fuch a fyfteni will be found unnecedary. The enumerated articles in this bill are very numerous, they are taxed from 50 per cent, down- ward, the general mafs pays five per cent. The calcula? tions made by the late Congrefs, who, no doubr, maturely confidered the fubjed, found a Ihl of eight articles only, and thofe at one-fourth or one-nfth of the rate now pro- pofcd, would produce a revenue of 915,656 dollars an- nually. When we add to this calculation, a circumftance of no- toriety, the increafe of our importation, we Ihall find that we levy, or mean to levy, greater fums than the public ne- eeifjties require ;there will not be found Ipecie enouglj — within the United States to pay the duties four times the rate of what the former Congrefs recommended, will pro- duce 15,600,000 dollars, the enumeration is four times as preat alfo ; hence we may infer, that the amount will reach , 1 3 or 14,000,000, at lealt we fuall be convinced that we are upon too high a fcale. But where is the neceflity of raif- ing the inipoil to this degree ? there are other means of re- venue, and iuci! as will not give difguft; we have already propofed a du:y on tonnage, there is the poft-office, and fome other things which the ingenuity of government carj  A. 1789. O!^ e O N G a E S S. 265 devife and is entitled to, for the purpofe of revenue ; if it is therefore unnecefiary to levy fuch oiiprefiive taxes, whau other pretext can be fet up for adopting the fyliem ? Inde- pendent of every other conlideratiou this ounht to induce us to lower them ;but there are other and v\ eip-hty con- fiderations, they have been \\'ell urged by the rrcntleinan from MafTachufetts (Mr. Ames), 1 ihall not touch upon them. Ic isfaid, that it is merely matter of opinion whe- ther they are too high or noi- ; if fo, let us be careful not to venture too far on fuch ground ; it will be much better to reduce it in the manner propofed by the gentleman from South-Carolina, and encreafc it hereafter, than itrain the nieafure too high* < . Mr. Sherman. After this fubjci^lhad been debated in a committee of the whole, and then in the Houfe upon the report, and every argument that could be thought of had been uro-ed, botli on the general and particular amount of the duties propofed, and the probable effects of a deduction, I did not expeft to have heard the fame debate take place again. Gentlemen have a large field to difplay their abilities in, but I do not think it contains any new matter that will induce a hngle gentleman to alter bis opinion oh the fubje>5t. The great obje^^ is to raife a fum of money adequate to fupply our wants ; and let us difpute as we will about the mode, the facl is it muft be raifed ; the people have fent their repre- fentatives here for this purpole, it is for their benefit that we raife the money, and not for any peculiar advantage raf ourfelves ; the objects are to pay the debts, and to provide for the general welfare of the conmiunit}'. The nrft of thefe objeds I take to be, that we pay our debts. There ire many very meritorious charafters who furniflied us with effentials in the hour of imminent danger, who, fronx the imbecility of our former government, have not been able to get even the interelt of what ihey loaned us. I believe it is the firft wilh of the people throughout the United States to do jultice to the public creditors, arjd to do it in fuch a manner, that each may contribute an equal part according to his abilities. We have very confiderable arrearages due on this account, upon not only the dowelfic but foreign debt ; there are ieveral iniialments not yet difchargcd, and confiderable of the interefl not yet paid. No ilatement can be made of the expenccs of governuient, io as to afcertain what quantity of revenue will be de- manded on that head ; but faying thr,t_, they will be inucli 266 DEBATES the fame under this government as the former, we fhall A. 1789. have occaiion for a very confiderable fum to defray the ex- pences. I believe v/e are not able to make a very accurate calculation of what the iyfrem, propofed in the bill, will yield. The late Congrefs contemplated a million of dollars from this fource, which, in aid of the requifi- tion, they fuppofe fufficient for the purpofe of paying the inftalments of the national debt and intereft ; but that fum aione will now be found very fhort of what is wanted with- out the aid of direct taxes. It is very material that we lay the burthen as equal as poflible, in whatever mode we pur- fue to obtain revenue :a great deal of care has been taken in diftributing the proportion with equity ; I apprehend, therefore, that we (liall not be able to make it much more equitable by any alteration th::n it is at prefent. I think alfo that the people will pay more freely a duty of