Amendments to the Constitution, [8 June] 1789 — reading text

and it lays with the fupreme legiflature to detail and regulate it. The law is to lupply the neceflary means of executing the principle laid down, for how can it be carried mto ef- fecl in any other manner — -This explanation J truft con- vinces gentlemen that the power of enacting fuch a law cxifts in Congrefs— But whether it is good policy or not to do it, depends upon a variety of circumftances ; for my own part, I think it prudent to make the neceflary regula- tions for carrying into eft'ed this part of the Conftitution. I imagine fome good effects were intended by the provi- fion, nor can I think the feelings of the ftate officers will be injured by taking an oath to fupport the government, when the people in the language of the Conftitution, have faid they fliall-^Why ihould gentlemen fuppofe the mem- bers of the legiflature, or any public office^', have objec* tions to taking sn oath, when the people have declared one fliall be taken by them. 1 conceive there can be no ra- tional objedion on their part ; I fhall therefore be in fa- vor of the amendment propofed by the Senate, trufting that good eiFefls will arile for our making fuch 3. regu- lation. Mr. Sylvester. I am an advocate for fupporting the dignity of the houfe, and to me it appears fome what inconfiftent, that we fl:ould change our fentiments in order to conform to the amend, jnent of the Senate, without knowing the reafon upon which they have founded the propofed meafure no doubt — butfufficicnt reafons have occurred to them, but none have appeared to this houfe ; if we are 10 iollovv the Senate isj A* 1789* Of CONGRESS. 223 all the alterations they propofe, without hearing reafons to induce a change, our time in deliberation is taken up un. neceflarily — with refpeft to any member of this iioul'e, who has not taken the oath, I concur that they are to pay obedience to what the authority of the legiflature may or- der on this head ; nay I am equally clear that the power to regulate the members of the ftate governments in taking the oath, is either lodged with the Congrefsof the United States, or no where. But it appears to me that the flate legiflatures have a concurrent power with Congrefs, in this regulation for the officers of the general government, and •, ftate governments are called upon in the fame manner, ** The Senators and Reprefentatives before mentioned, and the members of the feveral ftate legiflatures, and all executive, and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the feveral ftates, Ihall be bound by oath, or affir- mation, to fupport this Conftitution,'* thefe are the words of that inftrument. The queftion then is reduced to its ex- pediency, whether it is good policy to exercife the power or not ? I am afraid Mr. Speaker, if we exercife this pow, er it may be confidered an interference with the ftate governments ; would rather leave them to their difcre- I tion, trufting they would come forward and take the oath ; it is unneceflary for us to intermeddle if they will conform to what is direded by the Conftitution. ap« It pears to me moft prudent that till we fee a difpofition in the ftate governments to negleft this duty, that we do — not by law oblige them to perform it I wilh the govern- ment to go on gradually in admiiiiftering the Conftitution, and not give umbrage even to its enemies by a compulfo- ry a6l when there appears no neceflity for it. 1 could not concur in the amendinent propofed by the fenate, even if I confidered it not inconiiftent, in the houfe, to adopt a meafure they had prevjoufiy rejedled, unlefs fome — good reafons were offered to jfhew its propriety not but if I have been miftaken, I am always ready to reira6l my error, upon better information. Mr. Sherman Was not afrpid of being charged with inconfiftency, he had voted againll a Hmilar claufe when the bill was before the houfe, but he was covinced now of its propriety, he thought it more eligible to have a general provilion for taking the oath, than particular ones. It alio appeared necefl'ary to point out the oath itielf, as well as the time and manner of takuig it— no other legiflature is competent 1^4 fj E B A T £ S A. i78(ji t6 all thefe purpofes ; but if they were, there is a propri- ety in the fupreme legiflature's doitig it. At the fame timC^ if the ftate legiflatures take it up, it cannot operate drfa^ greeably upon them, to find all their neighbouring dates obliged to join them in fupporting a meafirre they approve. What a ftate legiflature may do, will be good as far as iC goes ; on the fame principle, the conftitution will apply trt each individual of the Hate officers, they may go without the diredion of the ftate legiflature tc a Jufticc and take the oath X'dluntarily ; this I fuppufe would be binding upon — them but this is not fatisfaifory, the government ought to know that the oath has been properly taken, and tnis can only be done by a general regulation. If it is in the difcretion of the itate legiflatures to make laws to carry the declaration of the conftitution into execution, they have the power of refufing, and may avoid the politive injunc- tions of the conilitution. As our power m this p.irticular extemls over the whole union, it is moll proper for us to take the fubjed up and make the proper provifion for car- rying it into execution, to the intention of the conftitution. Mr. BoUDiNoT Wifiied to remove the gentleman's objefticns arifing from inconfilt-ency. The ciaufe that was rejected by the com- itiitteeof the v^hole on this bill, contained a penalty for the negle,^ of faking the oarh, as prefcribed but the ameridment of the fenate, was not objeftionableon that account, becaufe it contained no fuch provifion. As to the policy or expediency of the meafure, he enter- tained not the leafl: doubt refpe<5ling it — the conltitution faid only that the officers ofgovernment Ihoujd be bound by oath, leaving to congrefs to fay what oath ; in fliort it was the duty of the houle, as had been well laid by the gen- tleman from New-Yurk (Mr. Lawrance) to detail the gen- eral principles laid down in the conftitution, and reduce them to pradice. He w'oilld enforce the expediency of the meafure with one farther remark — feveral of the ftate legiflatures were and had exprefled a wilh or expedation fitting at this lime, that fuch a regulation would be made by the general go- vernment if from principles of faH"e policy the meafure ; did not take place, the Hate legiflatures might neglect it al- fo, and it was well kuown that their officers cannot aft — without it hence the legality of their adls may be called in quefticn, and give caufe to a great deal of uneaiinefsand confuiiou. A. 1789. Of C O N G R E S S. 225 The* queftion, on concurring with the Senate in their ftmendmenrs to the bill, was carried, with an ainendraent, that the members of the State Legiflatures be direcled to lake the oath at their next feihons refpectively. The bill was, by order of the Houfe, returned to the Senate as amended. Mr. Lawraiice introduced the application to Congrefs of the State of New-York for calling a new Convention, which being read, was ordered to be entered at length on the minutes, and the origiual depofited on the files of the Houfe. The Houfe refumed the conlideration of Mr. Smith's motion to reduce the tonnage duty, on the veflels of fo- reigners in alliance with the United States, from 30 cents per ton to 20 cents. Mr. LlVERMORE. I rife aoainft ftrikins; out ^o cents to infert 20. Pro- bably, Mr. Speaker, if the motion had been inftead of 20 to infert 50, I fhould not have rilen to oppofe the motion, 30 cents I confider rather too fmail than too large an en- couragement to navigation. I am ferry tp find, fir, that this fubje6l has been conbdercd in the light or oppofition between the two extremes of the contment ; becaufe I apprehend every individual in the United States is alike in- terelted; it is the markof ariho.;orablc fyftenmeceflary to the good of the whole However, if gentlemen Itill think that : any part of this fyllem of finance bears harder on one part than on another, I ihall be more delicate in voting, or uling arguments to oppofe them. But I will, with the li- berty of the Houfe, proceed to prove, that this part of our fyftem does not bear fo much harder upon one part tlian another, as gentlemen feem to think. In order to do this, I fhall endeavour to examine the principles laid dov/n by the honorable gentlemen who fupport the idea, that a ton- nage duty will bear much heavier on the louthern flates that on the northern ones, previoufjy making fome obfer- vations on what has been urged by the gentlemen from Georgia (Mr. Jacklbn,) arid South-Carolina (Mr. Smith,) concerning the poverty of thofe ftates. They, with greac ingenuity, eloquence, and I may add, candor, difplayed the defperate fituation of thofe ftates ; but can it be unknown to this Honorable Houie that other ftates are alfo very poor. There are you know, Mr. Speaker, certain degrees of poverty ; it may be difficult, without the proper docu- ments, to afccrtain the relative degree of poverty between F f 226 DEBATES A.1789. The two fouthernmoft ftates are one (late and another. [aid to be opprefled with an enormous pubhc debt, fo are all the other flates. It is faid, that they have great diffi- culty in getting their produce carried to market ; it may be fo, but does not the whole of the commodities of thofe dates find their way to market ? There are not only dif- ferent degrees of poverty, but there are alfo two kinds of — poverty, which I will juft point out to the gentleman The one is the poverty of thofe ftates having got valuable pro- ductions on hand, but which they cannot carry to market ; the other is the poverty of having nothing to carry there, or very little. 1 need not trouble myfelf with repeating which of thefe kinds is the beft fubject for taxation. How- ever, as I do not conceive this prefent article was particu- larly intended to be a tax upon one part of the union more than another ; 1 fnall not dwell longer upon this point, but proceed to obferve, and endeavour to prove, that this is a tax upon foreigners only ; a tax which foreigners are very able to pay, and willing to pay, that is, they will not forfake the trade on account of this tax being laid upon it. It has been obferved by the gentleman from South- Caro- lina (Mr. Smith), that the reafon why Britilh fliippingget fo much more freight than the veffels of the United States, is becaufe of the debt which the fouthern ftates owe to the people of Great Britain, and that thofe people are ready- to receive their debts in produce, as foon as it can be got ready for them. This is juft and kind of the citizens of South-Carolina to ufe thofe means of extricating ihemfelves from their difficulties ; but I would all-; the gentlemen, if they entertain any well founded apprehenfions that the Britiih merchants, for the trifling difference of the propofed tonnage duty, will negledl to