Fort Walton Beach Council agenda — 06-10-08 regular agenda — reading text

First Amendment in establishing the practice of a religion so they sought the advice of the City Attorney who provided an opinion. She said because the opinion indicated if they were going to open with prayer or invocation that they had to make it accessible to anyone to pray, in any way, to any deity, of any kind. She said they do not have the attendance as Council meetings so they did not have anyone at the meetings to offer the invocation. She explained because of the concern of several Board members that they were crossing the line and establishing a religion they revisited the issue and chose not to have an invocation, primarily because it was only being offered by one member and they did not have people coming forward to participate in the invocation. She said they did decide to continue with the Pledge Allegiance to the flag then addressed the many forms that patriotism comes in and expressed that prayer is personal. She commented that when the Constitution was written and the Bill of Rights was penned, the majority of the people in this room were not considered citizens. She said that has since changed and perhaps it is time for others to change as well. Thomas Jebb, resident of the next county, voiced his support for the pledge and support for prayer. Doug Reed, CRA member, 842 Santa Rosa Court, expressed his view that Council needs to allow the boards to make the decision on their own and asked Council not to legislate religion and patriotism. Pastor Jonathan Sansom, Gulf Coast Community Church, expressed his belief it is important as a sitting government not to remove themselves from the heritage of the forefathers and his belief that it is wisdom to call for wisdom from God. He asked Council to consider a resolution. Reverend Scottie Thigpen, Beulah Baptist Church, voiced his strong support of the proposal and expressed it is really not about religion as it is about the right to pray and seeking God' s guidance. Pastor Mike Thorne, Abundant Life Church, expressed there is no separation of church and state in the constitution, that there is no detriment to having prayer before any function in the nation and it has always been a blessing to have prayer, and voiced support for the proposal. Pastor Charlie Anderson, Fishers of Men Ministries, thanked Council for all they do for the City and stated he stands for the pledge and he stands for the power of prayer. George Palerm, born and raised in Puerto Rico, said he has pledged the flag since he was able to talk, read and write, and then pledged to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, when he joined the Air Force in 1954. He spoke about the meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance with the words One Nation under God ", voiced his support of the proposal, and then sang a rendition of " God Bless America ". Rafael Cratch said he is an active duty member of the United States Air Force and asked Council to think about the members of the military who give their lives each day in defense of the constitution. Pastor Buck Dockery, Mary Esther Church of God, commented the children are excited when they are invited to come to pray and say the Pledge of Allegiance and they need to know the leaders still believe in prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance when they start their meetings.  Regular Council 5 -27 -08 150 AMENDING PROCEDURES FOR ALL CITY BOARDS /COMMITTEES cont. David Lewis, 212 Oak Street, said he served in the military and voiced his opinion that a person should have the right to step aside and not say a prayer. Jim Quigley, 134 Ferry Road, commented he served in the military, voiced his support for prayer and the pledge, but questioned whether an ordinance is the right way to go. Kabe Woods, 240 Brooks Street, member of the Vision Plan Stewardship Committee, commented the prayer is not on their agenda and often there is a very small crowd. He questioned the implementation and what they would do if no one was comfortable giving the prayer. As no one else wished to speak, public input was closed. Mr. Hartwell moved that staff prepare an ordinance that encourages a prayer be held in this assembly and in every City Council appointed Board and Committee wherein the business of the City of Fort Walton Beach is to take place, and if it be the decision of that Board or Committee by a majority vote to choose to observe a moment of silence in the place of a prayer, then so be it; and each opening ceremony commence with its members reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Holmes seconded motion. Mr. Hartwell explained his purpose is not to convert people but to make sure that they have the freedom to worship. He thought the framers of the country through the First Amendment to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights gives the freedom to practice religion. Mr. Holmes expressed it boils down to respect to fellow people to have the opportunity to pray or Pledge Allegiance if they want to and not infringe on their rights that they cannot. He did not think anyone who spoke tonight said what you have to pray for or who you have to pray to, but it is an opportunity to do that and it is just out of respect for the other person. He recalled someone said not to legislate but they are charged to do that and they have to look at what the majority of the people are asking. Dr. Pullen said he took an oath to the country in 1951 and served the country for 30 years and the constitution says that all people have the freedom of religion, which means all religions. He recounted he respected the religion of a country during his years of travel out of respect for the people. He agreed with a moment of silence in the motion but thought it should be split with the Pledge of Allegiance. He questioned the legality of any quasi-judicial action taken by any Board of the City when they have a member that is not a qualified U.S. or Florida voter. He said those Boards act as judge and juries and wished to know what position the City has been placed in on the legal liabilities of the action taken when there is a member of a Board voting who is not an eligible voter, not only a citizen but an eligible voter. He thought the City Attorney and maybe the State Attorney General should look into that. He voiced his support that every meeting should start with the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Garvie moved to amend the motion to sever the motion into two separate issues; with one motion to start the meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance and a second motion to start each meeting with a prayer. Mr. Reeves seconded amendment. Mr. Garvie recounted when he was Chairman of the CRA he instituted saying the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer at the start of the meeting. He said the prayer was left up to him to give so he obtained a book and tried to choose parts of prayers that would not offend anyone and it was very difficult. He said the Boards and Committees do not have groups willing to come forward to give a prayer so someone has to take that initiative and then try to give a prayer that is not offensive to other people. He expressed there is no question in his mind about the Pledge of Allegiance but prayer is a difficult issue. Mr. Hartwell made a point of clarification that his motion said that the Board or Committee by a majority vote may choose to observe a moment of silence in the place of a prayer. Regular Council 5 -27 -08 1. 51 AMENDING PROCEDURES FOR ALL CITY BOARDS /COMMITTEES cont. Mr. Reeves expressed the Committees and Boards are governed by Council, their appointments are made by Council, but it is a procedural issue for the smaller committees who serve in a voluntary capacity. He voiced his enjoyment of having the various Pastors and the children who attend the Council meetings to give the invocation and lead in the Pledge of Allegiance, but thought a moment of silence would not have the same effect. He expressed the leadership is with Council and having a prayer in a larger group may affect more people, and the smaller committees serve in a voluntary capacity. Dr. Pullen voiced his support on severing the two issues. The Mayor called for the vote on the amendment to sever the motion into two separate issues; with one motion to start the meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance, and a second motion to start each meeting with a prayer and it carried by a vote of 4 to 2 with Reeves, Garvie, Pullen, and Minich in favor and Holmes and Hartwell opposed (Miller absent). The Mayor opened discussion on the motion that staff prepare an ordinance that encourages a prayer be held in this assembly and in every City Council appointed Board and Committee wherein the business of the City of Fort Walton Beach is to take place, and if it be the decision of that Board or Committee by a majority vote to choose to observe a moment of silence in the place of a prayer, then so be it. Mr. Minich said he thought the CRA Board decided what they wanted to do and made a decision on how to move forward as a Board. He expressed it is more important to him that the Board decided together because they have to work together. He said he is more interested in the decisions and recommendations from the Boards more than how they start their meetings because that is what comes to Council and that is the City business. He recalled in his 20 years in the Army they did not pray at any meetings he attended because it did not have anything to do with the subject of the meeting. He said to him freedom means freedom and he did not think Council should legislate any more that you have to pray than to tell you that you cannot pray. He said no one is taking anyone' s right to pray away but he did not want to tell someone that they have to pray or have to have a moment of silence if they do not want to pray. He did not think anyone on Council wants to take prayer out of their meetings in the beginning and expressed it gives him a sense of calm when the ministers come to give the invocation. He said he will not tell someone they have to participate in prayer, it is something they should decide for themselves and whether or not they want to participate should be their own decision. Mr. Hartwell said he is aware the Boards and Committees are volunteers, and Council is volunteers too as they volunteered to run for the offices in which they sit. He believed the Boards and Committees are extension of City Council and if City Council deems it necessary to begin with a prayer, if the legislators in Tallahassee, the Congressmen, the Senators, and the President of the United States deem it necessary, then he thought they should be doing the same thing. He said there is a place for God in government and believed prayer needs to stay. Mr. Garvie expressed he did not want to impose on other committees and he cannot support forcing prayer. He believed in prayer starting a meeting but did not believe in forcing it. Mr. Holmes commented the motion gives a person an opportunity for a moment of silence, does not force anyone to pray but does give the people who want to pray an opportunity to have prayer, and it does give guidance to those committees. Dr. Pullen voiced his support for the motion because it says " or a moment of silence." Mr. Minch stated Council picks different groups of people to be on the committees so